Okt 07 18:01:15 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Init
Okt 07 18:01:35 <Kevin_Kofler>	So, it's the time for the KDE SIG meeting again.
Okt 07 18:01:38 <Kevin_Kofler>	Who's present?
Okt 07 18:02:20 <than>	present
Okt 07 18:02:28 <jreznik>	here (but I'm too tired...)
Okt 07 18:02:36 <SMParrish>	here
Okt 07 18:02:52 <rdieter>	1/2 here (work distracted a bit)
Okt 07 18:03:35 -->	ltinkl (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:04:47 <Kevin_Kofler>	Hmmm, I guess that's most of us. Unfortunately, svahl isn't present.
Okt 07 18:05:02 *	ltinkl is here too
Okt 07 18:05:19 <Kevin_Kofler>	Should we discuss "Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images?" even without svahl present?
Okt 07 18:05:42 <--	kital hat sich getrennt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Okt 07 18:05:55 <--	wwoods hat sich getrennt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Okt 07 18:06:05 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images?
Okt 07 18:06:07 <ltinkl>	don't think so
Okt 07 18:06:08 <than>	how stable is kpackagekit?
Okt 07 18:06:23 <ltinkl>	http://polishlinux.org/kde/kpackagekit-interview/
Okt 07 18:06:35 <ltinkl>	they posted a pretty nice overview of the current state
Okt 07 18:07:00 <ltinkl>	I think for rawhide we should enable, at least to get some feedback
Okt 07 18:07:02 <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter planned to try it out, not sure if he had the time already.
Okt 07 18:07:53 <rdieter>	just got f-10/rawhide installed/working on my machine at home yesterday (plymouth/modesetting got in the way), so I can try it out.
Okt 07 18:08:31 <Kevin_Kofler>	So what do we do? Defer until next week when you had a chance to try it out and hoping svahl is present?
Okt 07 18:08:36 <Kevin_Kofler>	But we don't have much time.
Okt 07 18:08:51 <than>	Kevin_Kofler: +1
Okt 07 18:08:54 <Kevin_Kofler>	The longer we wait, the less we'll be liked for doing such a change.
Okt 07 18:09:10 <Kevin_Kofler>	But without testing and without the live CD maintainer present, it's kinda hard to make a decision.
Okt 07 18:09:13 -->	jmbuser (n=jmbuser@77.30.5.192) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:09:34 <SMParrish>	+1 will give me another week to test it as well
Okt 07 18:09:46 <Kevin_Kofler>	OK, deferring until next week.
Okt 07 18:09:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	Next topic. :-)
Okt 07 18:09:57 <jreznik>	i'd like to test it too
Okt 07 18:10:14 -->	petreu (n=peter@fedora/petreu) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:10:18 <Kevin_Kofler>	If you want to test it on F9, you'll also have to rebuild PackageKit from Rawhide.
Okt 07 18:10:28 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - Mysterious cmake failure on ppc64
Okt 07 18:10:36 <Kevin_Kofler>	Next topic: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - Mysterious cmake failure on ppc64
Okt 07 18:10:43 -->	kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:10:59 <Kevin_Kofler>	This one is really "fun", it breaks the kdepim build in dist-f10 and prevents me from fixing the broken libgnokii.so.3 dependency.
Okt 07 18:11:01 <--	jyulliano hat sich getrennt ("Saindo")
Okt 07 18:12:07 <than>	does it only break on ppc64?
Okt 07 18:12:25 <Kevin_Kofler>	Always happens on ppc64, not always at the same place in cmake apparently, but always somewhere in there, and on 3 different ppc64 hosts (4 build attempts, all failed on ppc64).
Okt 07 18:13:28 <than>	does the problem show up in other archs?
Okt 07 18:13:59 <Kevin_Kofler>	In the latest attempt, it failed after the check for HAVE_SYS_CDEFS_H, in the one I complained about on the mailing list, it was after the check for SYS_INOTIFY_H_FOUND.
Okt 07 18:14:01 <rdieter>	curious: are the failures *only* on xen hosts?  (I recall seeing an issue related to that awhile, back, but thought it had since been fixed).
Okt 07 18:14:12 <Kevin_Kofler>	Maybe with enough resubmits, I could cheat it through.
Okt 07 18:14:24 <Kevin_Kofler>	The ppc64 hosts aren't Xen, are they?
Okt 07 18:14:44 <Kevin_Kofler>	than: It always shows up on ppc64.
Okt 07 18:14:47 <rdieter>	maybe not, I was just wondering.
Okt 07 18:14:53 -->	svahl (n=deadbaby@p54834626.dip.t-dialin.net) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:15:33 <--	kital hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Okt 07 18:15:36 *	svahl is sorry for being late, my ISP is trying to kill me
Okt 07 18:16:45 <Kevin_Kofler>	svahl: We've talked a bit about kpackagekit - rdieter hasn't had the time to do any testing yet, he just got F10 running after fighting with Plymouth and modesetting.
Okt 07 18:17:00 <Kevin_Kofler>	SMParrish and jreznik also want to do some testing.
Okt 07 18:17:18 *	lvillani has f10 with kpackagekit on both workstation and laptop, now
Okt 07 18:17:20 <Kevin_Kofler>	So we thought maybe it's best to decide this next week, what do you think?
Okt 07 18:17:30 <svahl>	I've done some quick tests with it. Basic functions seems to work and it fit's nicely into systemsettings.
Okt 07 18:17:37 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - kpackagekit
Okt 07 18:17:41 <svahl>	ok
Okt 07 18:17:47 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - kpackagekit
Okt 07 18:18:16 <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, if lvillani and you say it's great, maybe we should switch now?
Okt 07 18:18:41 -->	ezq (n=ezq@host195.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:18:54 <svahl>	I've only done quick tests and some live spins. Additional testers won't hurt
Okt 07 18:19:07 <lvillani>	it seems to work here, however there are some glitches when running an update
Okt 07 18:19:25 <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: F10 is not working for me in VirtualBox (kernel bug) but I still have rawhide box with older kernel so I can test it... I'm looking forward for kpackagekit
Okt 07 18:19:34 <lvillani>	ie: the package list is empty (only the checkboxes are shown)
Okt 07 18:19:49 <Kevin_Kofler>	lvillani: Please file bugs for all the oddities you encounter.
Okt 07 18:19:52 -->	KageSenshi (n=kagesens@fedora/KageSenshi) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:20:04 <Kevin_Kofler>	Let's give it that one more week, maybe things like this can be fixed in that week, too.
Okt 07 18:20:07 <lvillani>	i'll do that as soon as I can reproduce it again
Okt 07 18:20:35 <lvillani>	the rest seems to work nicely
Okt 07 18:20:56 <--	giallu hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Okt 07 18:21:01 <--	che hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection)
Okt 07 18:21:20 <Kevin_Kofler>	OK, thanks for the testing. More on that next week. :-)
Okt 07 18:21:29 <Kevin_Kofler>	We have more stuff to discuss.
Okt 07 18:21:48 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Plasma backports? (see also plasma-4.1-openSUSE)
Okt 07 18:22:03 <Kevin_Kofler>	Next topic: Plasma backports? (see also plasma-4.1-openSUSE)
Okt 07 18:22:13 <--	petreu hat sich getrennt ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
Okt 07 18:22:13 <Kevin_Kofler>	See http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/plasma-4.1-openSUSE/?view=log for their revision log.
Okt 07 18:22:19 <Kevin_Kofler>	They backported a lot of stuff.
Okt 07 18:22:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	Some interesting for us, some not so much (like stuff which breaks binary compatibility in libplasma without a soname change, sounds like a recipe for chaos).
Okt 07 18:23:41 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think we want at least panel autohide, it's a very frequently requested change and the backport is not too invasive:
Okt 07 18:23:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=864493
Okt 07 18:23:58 <jreznik>	Yes, they are backporting a lot of stuff
Okt 07 18:24:01 <jreznik>	Autohide +1
Okt 07 18:24:12 <lvillani>	+1 too
Okt 07 18:24:17 <than>	+1
Okt 07 18:24:29 <Kevin_Kofler>	The monitor.svg and scrollbar.svg theme additions seem unrelated, the containment-controls.svg change appears to be related though.
Okt 07 18:24:46 <Kevin_Kofler>	Is binary compatibility in plasma/plasma (as opposed to libs/plasma) an issue?
Okt 07 18:24:55 <Kevin_Kofler>	Because that one gets broken by those changes.
Okt 07 18:25:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	But it's not in the lib.
Okt 07 18:25:16 <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't think stuff actually links to plasma/plasma, does it?
Okt 07 18:25:27 <ltinkl>	nope
Okt 07 18:25:33 <jreznik>	I don't think too
Okt 07 18:25:40 <Kevin_Kofler>	So that should be safe.
Okt 07 18:25:42 <ltinkl>	unless it's a lib, it's fine to break it imo
Okt 07 18:26:03 <Kevin_Kofler>	There's also this small followup: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=865014
Okt 07 18:26:06 -->	Zool^Wrk (n=kaland@84.234.242.190) hat #Fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:26:10 <jreznik>	we can try it at least, if it breaks something, we can go back...
Okt 07 18:26:46 <jreznik>	interesting patch
Okt 07 18:26:53 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm unsure about that one: advantage: nice to have, it sucks not to see what size we're actually getting as in current 4.1, drawback: adds strings which won't get translated before 4.2.
Okt 07 18:27:37 <--	Zool^ hat sich getrennt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Okt 07 18:27:40 <Kevin_Kofler>	Or are those strings already somewhere?
Okt 07 18:27:59 <ltinkl>	if they are somewhere in kdelibs, it will show translated
Okt 07 18:28:05 <ltinkl>	which is quite likely
Okt 07 18:28:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	If not, maybe we should hack it so it shows just the number without the English label? ;-)
Okt 07 18:28:26 <jreznik>	or replace it with [W] x [H]
Okt 07 18:28:29 <ltinkl>	yup, sth like "%1 x %2"
Okt 07 18:28:46 <than>	it's good idea :)
Okt 07 18:28:47 ---	wwoods_ ist jetzt bekannt als wwoods
Okt 07 18:28:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	The problem is that the second dimension isn't really meaningful for a panel.
Okt 07 18:29:06 <ltinkl>	it is eventho it stays constant :p
Okt 07 18:29:14 -->	Matias_arg (n=root@host133.190-136-213.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 18:29:33 <Kevin_Kofler>	OK, I'll see what I can do about those labels.
Okt 07 18:29:48 <--	Matias_arg (n=root@host133.190-136-213.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting verlassen
Okt 07 18:30:58 <Kevin_Kofler>	The panel autohide patch also comes with some string changes though, not all absolutely necessary (because it's a backport of more than just autohide).
Okt 07 18:31:31 <Kevin_Kofler>	For example, instead of i18n("Align panel to left"), we have i18n("Panel Alignment") and i18n("Left").
Okt 07 18:32:46 <jreznik>	So only backport autohide but still (maybe)  there is autohide word...
Okt 07 18:32:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll see if I can somehow minimize the string changes and reuse as many existing strings as possible in the dialog.
Okt 07 18:33:10 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think "Auto Hide" will just stay untranslated.
Okt 07 18:33:23 <Kevin_Kofler>	There's only so much magic we can do.
Okt 07 18:34:02 <Kevin_Kofler>	I mean, there's probably "Automatically" and "Hide" somewhere in the message catalog for kdelibs, but if I just concatenate this, it will "ungrammatically sound" in many languages. ;-)
Okt 07 18:34:13 <jreznik>	;-)
Okt 07 18:34:20 <ltinkl>	don't do that :)
Okt 07 18:35:28 <Kevin_Kofler>	The new config stuff will be untranslated, I'll try to avoid the unnecessary string changes in the existing config stuff.
Okt 07 18:36:50 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think I know why they changed it though: so it's consistently in vboxes along with the autohide etc. options.
Okt 07 18:37:22 <Kevin_Kofler>	The old style had unlabeled icons in a vbox or hbox depending on the panel orientation.
Okt 07 18:38:00 <Kevin_Kofler>	I guess we'll have to live with the untranslated "Panel alignment" string (I'm sure "Left", "Center" and "Right" are translated. ;-) ).
Okt 07 18:38:36 <ltinkl>	you already mentioned i18n("Panel Alignment") above
Okt 07 18:38:57 <Kevin_Kofler>	Yes, and now I explained why they added that string.
Okt 07 18:39:00 <ltinkl>	as long as it comes from the same (or "parent") catalog, it's ok
Okt 07 18:39:40 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think it comes from nowhere, along with some of the other strings added. :-( http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/plasma-4.1-openSUSE/plasma/plasma/panelcontroller.cpp?r1=864493&r2=864492&pathrev=864493
Okt 07 18:39:44 <jreznik>	ltinkl: but it is old one tool tip message...
Okt 07 18:39:45 <Kevin_Kofler>	Search for i18n.
Okt 07 18:41:06 <ltinkl>	i see
Okt 07 18:44:03 <Kevin_Kofler>	Another interesting patch in plasma-4.1-openSUSE is the folderview backport: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=863348
Okt 07 18:44:18 <Kevin_Kofler>	It requires at least Plasma::ScrollBar to be added to the lib though.
Okt 07 18:44:38 <Kevin_Kofler>	The really interesting part in it is support for saving icon positions across sessions.
Okt 07 18:44:48 <Kevin_Kofler>	But it isn't properly isolated there.
Okt 07 18:44:49 <jreznik>	I'm not sure about lib changes... Crashing plasma is big deal
Okt 07 18:45:39 <Kevin_Kofler>	Should I try extracting and truly backporting (not applying huge diffs wholesale) the change which adds support for icon positions?
Okt 07 18:45:46 <Kevin_Kofler>	Or is it not worth the trouble?
Okt 07 18:46:55 <ltinkl>	your decision :)
Okt 07 18:47:21 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll say it's not worth the trouble if we don't get at least a bug filed or something about it.
Okt 07 18:47:24 <Kevin_Kofler>	:-)
Okt 07 18:47:56 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - KMix multimedia key support (Kubuntu patch)
Okt 07 18:48:16 <Kevin_Kofler>	Next topic: KMix multimedia key support (Kubuntu patch)
Okt 07 18:48:24 <Kevin_Kofler>	I've discussed that one on #fedora-kde a bit already.
Okt 07 18:48:43 <--	fbijlsma hat sich getrennt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Okt 07 18:48:46 <jreznik>	Do you have link for this patch?
Okt 07 18:48:47 <--	DemonJester hat sich getrennt ("leaving")
Okt 07 18:48:55 <Kevin_Kofler>	Basically, Kubuntu touts this as a new great feature in Intrepid, I figured out how they do it: http://repo.calcforge.org/f10/kubuntu_02_kmix_keyboard_shortcuts.diff
Okt 07 18:49:08 <Kevin_Kofler>	The problem there is that it's not upstream, not even in 4.2. :-(
Okt 07 18:49:49 <Kevin_Kofler>	It also adds some strings, but those are normally not shown except in "Configure Shortcuts", so I don't think that will be a big problem.
Okt 07 18:50:04 <Kevin_Kofler>	What's more worrying is this: mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids
Okt 07 18:50:25 <Kevin_Kofler>	The volume slider acted on by the MM keys is hardcoded to "Master:0" everywhere.
Okt 07 18:50:41 <Kevin_Kofler>	And of course the fact that it's not upstream as patches should be.
Okt 07 18:50:48 <ltinkl>	not good, the string change is ok, that one comes from kdelibs
Okt 07 18:51:10 <Kevin_Kofler>	"Increase Volume", "Decrease Volume" and "Mute" are in kdelibs already?
Okt 07 18:51:50 <jreznik>	Mute should be there (KMix right click)
Okt 07 18:52:35 <ltinkl>	by "not good" I meant the master device hardcoding
Okt 07 18:53:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	Yes, I don't like that either.
Okt 07 18:53:25 <Kevin_Kofler>	On the other hand, what should MM keys be controlling?
Okt 07 18:53:44 <--	herson hat sich getrennt ("Leaving")
Okt 07 18:53:51 <jreznik>	it's more hack than patch
Okt 07 18:54:03 <jreznik>	for MM keys is better use tools for them
Okt 07 18:54:44 <Kevin_Kofler>	Doesn't GNOME do it in their mixer-like tool though?
Okt 07 18:55:03 <ltinkl>	ye master device but I think it might be called differently for other soundcards, there's the hack
Okt 07 18:55:35 <Kevin_Kofler>	So let's not merge that patch as is?
Okt 07 18:56:00 <ltinkl>	maybe ask jriddel first
Okt 07 18:56:02 <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter, what do you think? You seemed very enthousiastic about MM keys working, though not about the "Master:0" hack.
Okt 07 18:56:50 <jreznik>	or add configuration dialog
Okt 07 18:56:51 <rdieter>	ltinkl: good idea, I'll ask him.
Okt 07 18:57:14 <Kevin_Kofler>	OK. Next topic...
Okt 07 18:57:23 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - find-lang-like macro for KDE documentation
Okt 07 18:57:25 <ltinkl>	jreznik, rdieter: kmix already has a "select master channel" dialog
Okt 07 18:57:38 <Kevin_Kofler>	This is a wishlist type item: find-lang-like macro for KDE documentation
Okt 07 18:57:48 <ltinkl>	so the keys should just use that
Okt 07 18:57:59 <jreznik>	ltinkl: so no hardcoded values and use that defaults
Okt 07 18:58:15 <Kevin_Kofler>	After seeing hacks like this:
Okt 07 18:58:17 <Kevin_Kofler>	%lang(ca) %{_kde4_docdir}/HTML/ca/konq-plugins
Okt 07 18:58:17 <Kevin_Kofler>	%lang(de) %{_kde4_docdir}/HTML/de/konq-plugins
Okt 07 18:58:18 <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler:   find_lang has a documented --kde option, just that's unimplemented.
Okt 07 18:58:18 <Kevin_Kofler>	etc.
Okt 07 18:58:33 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think we really need a better solution.
Okt 07 18:58:56 <Kevin_Kofler>	I've also seen your (rdieter's) copy&pasted scripts in some of the packages which should really be a macro. :-(
Okt 07 18:59:05 <Kevin_Kofler>	(for that very purpose)
Okt 07 18:59:12 <rdieter>	totally agree.
Okt 07 18:59:54 <Kevin_Kofler>	Anything we can do about that?
Okt 07 18:59:58 <rdieter>	I've been meaning to do that for a long time, just never got to it.
Okt 07 19:00:34 <rdieter>	to do:  write/patch find_lang to "do the right thing" when passed --kde parameter
Okt 07 19:00:34 <jreznik>	it is ugly copy pasted from other packages... should be macro
Okt 07 19:01:32 <Kevin_Kofler>	Shouldn't we just put our own macro into kde-filesystem?
Okt 07 19:01:51 <Kevin_Kofler>	The problem with updating find_lang is that it will take ages until we can use it consistently.
Okt 07 19:02:05 <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: find_lang is the better place, imo, but if that takes too long or isn't accepted, then by all means, we can make our own
Okt 07 19:02:08 <Kevin_Kofler>	Especially for the RHEL builds at kde-redhat and EPEL.
Okt 07 19:03:00 -->	kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 19:03:03 <rdieter>	make a short-term:  kde_find_lang  (suggestions for better names for macro welcome)
Okt 07 19:03:20 <Kevin_Kofler>	kde_find_doc_lang?
Okt 07 19:03:39 <Kevin_Kofler>	Or do you want to do both find_lang and the documentation stuff in a single macro?
Okt 07 19:04:32 -->	petreu (n=peter@fedora/petreu) hat #fedora-meeting betreten
Okt 07 19:05:02 <rdieter>	we can haggle on the technical/implementation details once we have a prototype, anything past that is bikeshedding at this point. :)
Okt 07 19:05:49 <Kevin_Kofler>	Hmmm, we're already over time...
Okt 07 19:06:04 *	Kevin_Kofler is a horrible moderator when it comes to respecting time constraints.
Okt 07 19:06:26 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Open Discussion
Okt 07 19:06:41 <Kevin_Kofler>	Anything else to discuss, which is important enough for it to have to be now?
Okt 07 19:07:14 <--	baard1973 hat sich getrennt ("Leaving")
Okt 07 19:07:16 <--	Zool^Wrk hat sich getrennt ("Leaving")
Okt 07 19:07:30 <Kevin_Kofler>	Otherwise, I'd suggest we close the meeting here, we can go back to #fedora-kde for any further discussion.
Okt 07 19:08:09 <jreznik>	-> #fedora-kde and for me office -> home
Okt 07 19:08:39 <svahl>	Kevin_Kofler, could you upload the irc log, please?
Okt 07 19:08:44 <--	nphilipp hat sich getrennt ("Leaving")
Okt 07 19:08:58 <Kevin_Kofler>	svahl: Yes, I can do that.
Okt 07 19:09:03 <svahl>	thx
Okt 07 19:09:08 <--	jreznik hat sich getrennt ("Konversation terminated!")
Okt 07 19:09:20 ---	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
